Hi guys, it's weeg3 - i haven't been on the forums for a while due to life just being hectic and crazy.

I currently work for a growing US cigarette manufacturing company that is looking to expand its product line to include snus, and I've been asked by the owners to ask around and find out what it is that snussers are really looking for in an American made product.

I've done Camel and Marlboro, as well as some American snus that should never have been called "snus" in the first place.... (Tourney - bleh.). I'm also familiar with the Discreet and discontinued Triumph product as well. We wish to stay true to the Swedish style, but to also create a snus product that people will buy.

So before this whole thing goes into the works shortly here, I'd like to give you the opportunity to pick my brain and tell me your likes, dislikes, thoughts, ideas, etc.

What do YOU want in American snus?

Hey weeg3...what don't we want from American Snus.

1. Air and Sun curing of tobacco before processing.

2. Gothia Tek process.

3. More Bio-Available Nicotine.

4. More-or Slightly basic ph (7.3 is good)

5. Ingredients and nicotine content publicly available.

6. All natural Ingredients listed on Can.

7. Artificial sweetners like Xylitol and low sugar options.

8. Tobacco, Water, Humectants, all natural flavorings,
natural salts(sodium Carbonate)Nothing else but Salmiac is ok.

9. wide Range of flavors

10. wide range of nicotine content from non-nicotine to mini's, Regular/Original and White/Black portions, Loose versions, Sterks and Strongs, Extra Sterks.
0,2,4,8,9,11,13,15,16,17mgs nic content...no more than 20mg

10. 24/1mg portions per can or 45-50 grams/can for loose.

11. Cheaper price than Swedish Snus. Which for now is cheap and will still be cheap in my book for the Swedish Snus because of all things listed above and qulity.

12. Company customer interaction and excellent customer service with numbers to call during business hours with real people to talk to about orders, concerns, questions, and comments.

13. Magnificent can design made with metal and plastic tins and excellent seal to keep Snus fresh for up to a year with refrigeration. With best buy date. This is the one thing Camel does right.

14. More moisture content.

15. Comfortable portions, and different portion sizes.

16. Make a US Version of Luck Strike and Pall Mall and Swedish Camel. Order a can of each, from a friend in Europe, and use these versions as a basis for making US versions. I like Lucky Strike "It's Toasted."

17. Make a US version of Montecristo and Romeo and Julieta no.2 , Everything but the Cuban tobacco, every other ingredient just as it is.

These are all things Swedish and Norwegian Snus offer...being the US, with the ability to tackle any goal and reach any height, we should be able to have all these things I have stated above.

If all these things are done well then American Snus will be huge in 5 years. Oh yeah and have Big Tobacco lobbies spend whatever it takes to get "reduced harm" status recognized in the U.S. Seeing that the US is all about money and payoffs, I know this can be done in good time.

That's just off the top of my head if I think of anything else I will post.

Good to meet you weeg3 and look forward to chatting with you on SnusCentral forums.

Much Respect

VC

Sorry for the Dblpost but I forgot a few things...how silly of me.

There have to be catch lids.

And most important, but this goes without saying if Gothia Tek is used...Extremely low TSNA's and these TSNA counts to be public Knowlege.

Oh yeah American Snus Manufacturers should keep pushing the fact that Snus has been used safely for over 200+ years as opposed to what they are pushing now that American Snus Manfacturers "invented" it 5 or ten years ago.

Push for more studies of Snus and Swedish Snus Studies to be promoted as a Corporate rule.

VC

What he said!

Also I think that an American snus needs the same nicotine choices as the Swedish snus. I use the es all the time but I also enjoy the 8mg versions.

And there needs to be a los version be it coarse cut or long cut. I don't care for some of the fine cut los as it goes to mud. Something like the Offroad or Bla.

v, you sure know your snus!

We DO NOT want a dip product, or a "snus imitator" like Marlboro. We want a product that can be an American competitor to Swedish snus - that means done in the Swedish style, with low TSNA's, not sickeningly sweet, and I'd like to push for an ingredient list on the can as well. I also feel strongly that an expiration date is necessary.

It has not been discussed, but I don't believe that we will be doing los to start out with - just portions.

As for portion size and flavor, we really don't know yet, which is why I'm asking you guys. Personally, I like Thunder Frosted +, but I think that 01 Lab Series has a nice size for a regular. Some portions just feel to big to me, like Thunder regs, and General Onyx is just plain uncomfortable to me. Flavors, we are thinking a "straight" and some other.

Nicotine levels haven't been discussed yet either. I know that sterks can sell well, especially in America, but whether we want all sterks, all regulars, or a mix hasn't been decided yet.

I personally like cans with catch lids. I don't care for pouches, and while Camel's tins are pretty to look at, I don't find them functional. This is just my opinion, but I hope to have some input on the product design in addition to development.

The FDA is tough.... There is a lot of red tape to cut through to claim that a product is "safe" or "safer" than cigarettes when, really, the anti-tobacco movement in this country has been speaking loud and clear. This is something that is just beyond our control. Because I work for a company that could be making snus, I don't believe that I or anyone in the company can legally claim this - even if we have evidence to back it up. We will have to follow established rules and regulations as far as warning labels, etc. However, I do agree that there are a lot of studies out there with great results, I just don't know if we're allowed to link to that.

As far as customer service, we pride ourselves on providing excellent customer service to our cigarette consumers already, and the same would be extended to snus consumers. We strive to keep our customers happy because, ultimately, it allows us to produce more quality product and grow as a company. That's sort of why I'm here on the forums asking around in the first place

What they said! And there needs to be a los version be it coarse cut or long cut. I don't care for some of the fine cut los as it goes to mud. Something like the Offroad or Bla.
QTF!!

However, I do agree that there are a lot of studies out there with great results, I just don't know if we're allowed to link to that.So sad that the truth is automatically disallowed by our government.

These people who want tobacco out, they are hardcore. They don't want anything to do with tobacco - they want to kill off cigarettes, snus, dip, snuff, anything that has tobacco in it. And heaven forbid you tell them that hey, there is a relatively safe way to enjoy tobacco. That would undermine their goals.

It makes me think of prohibition, and how it never stopped the production and sale of alcohol. What our government doesn't realise is that if they cut us out, we will go underground, and they won't be able to tax what's underground

I've got to agree with VC on this. It sound's horrible but make a clone of Swedish snus that's American made, and you'll have a hit on your hands.

Also, develope a method of not having refigeration required would be a good call as well. I see that as being a roadblock to snus making inroads in to convience stores. Most of the 7-11s etc. I see have limited floor space, and an extra fridge for snus might be a turnoff, if it can share behind the counter space with other tobacco products it might be an easier impulse try item.

Pat

weeg3 wrote:
These people who want tobacco out, they are hardcore. They don't want anything to do with tobacco - they want to kill off cigarettes, snus, dip, snuff, anything that has tobacco in it. And heaven forbid you tell them that hey, there is a relatively safe way to enjoy tobacco. That would undermine their goals.

It makes me think of prohibition, and how it never stopped the production and sale of alcohol. What our government doesn't realise is that if they cut us out, we will go underground, and they won't be able to tax what's underground

They would rather have you drunk and fat than able to enjoy any tobacco product. If it were all "for the children" then they would ban fast food and potato chips!
The best thing to do is try and slide past the tobacco nazis with a safer alternative type labeling. I hope your company can come through with something comparable to Swedish snus.
As far as flavors go they should make a Claq Qui clone not the horrible mint portion General has put out though. Wintergreen, berry, coffee etc... The coffee might do really well(prob too well for the nazis)
And don't think were not all ready to go black market due to the govt!

I partially agree with phager76 about needing to be unrefrigerated. I personally cannot stand when my snus start drying out. I keep all but what I am currently using in either the freezer or the fridge. When they get too dry I add some bottled water. I remember how horrible the Camels got due to the nice looking but useless can they came in. After a day it was like sticking sawdust pellets in your mouth. Marlboro come that way. Yuck!
But I do believe that with people smoking less and trying to find acceptable alternatives to smoking that snus if marketed correctly and with a non crap product would do awesome in the states. And in that case I would expect to see a fridge the size of the General ones in every 7-11 coast to coast! If you look at chad's pictures from his recent trip to Sweden he got a great picture of the countertop dispenser for the LS Nites. That would be a great dispenser without a large footprint for the average shop.

What I want is Swedish snus. So if you guys can replicate that process exactly you might have a chance. For me personally the knowledge was the most important thing. The fact that I knew the exact ingredients, the best buy date, the flavors, and the nicotine content was what mattered the most.

Secondly I felt like snus was for me because of all the amazing flavor combinations that are available. I also think different pouch sizes, Los, and different nicotine strengths are very, very, very important.

Please don't forget that one of the best things you could do is offer samples to some of us so that you can get honest feedback for your product. The last thing you should want to do is offer a very inferior product like Marlboro SNUS and Camel SNUS.

portions can be white or regular not to picky
at least 8mg of nicotine
no sugar the real deal does not need it so you do not need it
ingredients on the can
snus catch lid
Do limited editions (once a year like v2 or every few months like SM)
Hire someone that has alot of experience in snus making pay them well get them to train your factory employees make the users happy so we can finally say american snus is good not crap

Make one really good brand. 8mg & an ES level 15-20mg. Low and published TNSA counts. Made in the Swedish mold, from seeds to finished product. Air cured, pasteurized. Flavors? A straight, bergamont,juniper and maybe a mint/wintergreen. ( In the American market you will almost have to have a wintergreen.) Keep the sugars low. Get advice from a Swedish snus manufacturer. Sure it'll cost for said advice, but they have the process down pat, and it'll be cheaper than doing all this wrong and starting over.

Most of all use quality tobacco. Do not expect flavors to hide the taste of tobacco. Snus users can and will taste the difference. Use quality tobacco to enhance any flavors. The tobacco blend is the most important factor in a great snus.

tejas wrote:
However, I do agree that there are a lot of studies out there with great results, I just don't know if we're allowed to link to that.So sad that the truth is automatically disallowed by our government.
Of course it is...haven't you read the new warning labels starting June 22? Only one of the 4 is almost accurate: Nicotine is addictive; not smokeless tobacco.


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Tobacco companies are not allowed under the Tobacco Control Act to make any positive statements about their product or imply it is reduced risk until after (and if and when) their products are classified as MRT by FDA.

Anything that is negative about any tobacco products, true or false, is encouraged by the Tobacco Control Act.

Fortunately, this site is not bound by those rules. A number of tobacco and snus companies link to us now as well as others which tell the truth about Real snus. I do not believe that is prohibited by the TCA.

The first major wave of the Snus Apocalypse arrives June 22nd; the second July 1st. We all will fight on.