feck wrote:
Larry Waters wrote:


Of course, I could still get hit by a bus but I'll have a portion in when the bus runs me over.

When I become a big-time Snus manufacturer I'm going to come up with a 20 mg nicotine portion and call it "Hit By a Bus" in your honor, Larry.

I wanna get "Hit BY a Bus"



Fury

Tough question, but like many have already said, if you can stay away fromt he addiction, then do so. If you feel as if you're going to relapse, then order some snus, or call us and we'll set up an intervention, lol

This is obviously a personal matter. For me Snus has saved me in so many ways. The disgusting habit of smoking now seems forever disgusting to me. The nastiness of snuff is no longer something my wife has to deal with.

I will Snus till I die, I enjoy tobacco but hated the only two ways I knew to put it in my system. I feel like the American Government is to blame somehow in not letting Americans see the greatness of this awesome thing called Snus. I'm sorry but I just can't say enough good about Snus.

However the mere fact you are questioning picking tobacco back up leads me to believe you may be better off tobacco free. It's a personal thing and I wish you well and the strength to make the right decision for yourself.

In defense of the US gov (words I never thought I'd say) they really have nothing to do with the US not having snus before this. Granted they are considering ways to screw with it now, but that was only recently with the FDA bill and now maybe PACT.
Snus manufactures just never realized there would be a market in the US. I don't know why. Maybe because they figured we had dip.

Yeah, but dip = los snus basicly. Just that snus is pasturized and dip is fermented, right? So if they forced big tobacco companys to make 'dip' safer, they would have forced them to make snus. Am I right with my thinking or way off base? At least thats the way my brain understands it



Fury

Fury556 wrote:
Yeah, but dip = los snus basicly. Just that snus is pasturized and dip is fermented, right? So if they forced big tobacco companys to make 'dip' safer, they would have forced them to make snus. Am I right with my thinking or way off base? At least thats the way my brain understands it
Fury
Truer than you know but not quite. The SnusCIA has uncovered something. They'll be posting it in a day or two.

Fury556 wrote:
Yeah, but dip = los snus basicly. Just that snus is pasturized and dip is fermented, right? So if they forced big tobacco companys to make 'dip' safer, they would have forced them to make snus. Am I right with my thinking or way off base? At least thats the way my brain understands it



Fury

I'm working through an excellent history of snus right now written by Janne Sundling. It is in Swedish, and I am constantly pulling out my Svenskt/American dictionary or calling my Swedish neighbor all hours of the day to clarify certain passages, but there's a lot in there about the differences between American snuff and Swedish snus.

Starting back around the late 1600's, Swedish snus has traditionally always been air-cured. Most tobacco was imported from the US and allowed to cure in transit on the ship. This was prior to the development of American flue-cured tobacco, so by the time Sweden got around to being able to grow their own tobacco they only knew of processing it "the old way" which was to hang it in the barn and let it air dry. This kept the TSNA count to a minimum as we all know now, while the Americans went flue-burn crazy adding all kinds of unsafe chemicals to their tobacco.

This was back when everyone still used snus nasally. It wasn't until the late 1700's when the habit of taking it orally became popular. Snus makers started adding more moisture to their snuff and went to great pains to seal the shipping containers as best they could to prevent drying. (Some people still used it nasally, including JF Ljungolf, the creator of Ettan.)

Back around 1830, Ljungolf and his snus-loving buddy JJ Berzilius (father of modern chemistry, and all-around genius renaissance man) hit upon the unique pasteurization method, which made the snus that much safer. Berzilius was the first person in fact to suggest that there was potentially dangerous macrobiotic organisms in tobacco and they could be kept to a minimum if steam processed like milk. It took 250 years to prove him right.

Meanwhile, back in the US, some Danish immigrants working for the Weyman snuff company caught the owner's attention with the way that they took their snuff (orally, instead of nasally) and together they created Copenhagen moist snuff, which was based on an old Swedish snus recipe. The difference was that while great improvements were being made to moist snuff in Scandinavia, American snuff was still being made of the traditional fermentation process and with the native flue-cured tobacco. It would remain that way for another 175 years, killing a million or more people in the process.

So based on that, you will never hear me equate the two tobacco products. The fact that dip is still fermented means that the smokeless companies in the US don't want to switch to the more expensive pasteurization process. They're two hundred years behind the Swedes. I'm also convinced that there is more danger to certain tobaccos than just TSNAs. There's also the syrup and sugar that helps you rot your teeth as well as the jagged cuts that just plain make your gums feel worn out. (And no, I'm not talking about fiberglass- that's an old wives tale that should have died out fifty years ago.) Snus is nowhere in that league.

Copenhagen and Ettan were both introduced in 1822. And comparisons between Copenhagen and Ettan are exactly what they were two centuries ago. You have a cheaply made, fermented, possibly fire-cured American product that will probably rot your mouth and worse thanks to its sugar and double digit TSNA count- then you have a premium-made, Swedish import that utilizes the most modern production techniques and has never been known to cause health problems. When was the last time US Smokeless paid for someone's jaw to be removed or offer to pay for their teeth to be pulled? Yet Swedish Match gets word that someone caught cavities from one of their products and without legal intimidation, they automatically offer to pay his dental bills and immediately change their recipe to use artificial flavorings. Swedish Match (and the other snus makers) actually stand behind what they make while the US Smokeless companies stand behind only their profits.

That misconception that snus, snuff, dip and chew is all the same is something that the snus makers are going to have to fight tooth and nail in order to make a foothold in this country. We know dip is bad. Heck, ask the average smoker and they'll tell you that smokeless is worse than smoking. Snus should never be identified with dip. It's so much better than that.

[/fanatical rant]

Walter Loewe has written some excellent books on the tobacco history of Sweden..and they are available in English.

Feck, you know I'm going to have to publish your "rant" as an article..... For someone who doesn't like to write, you are pretty damn good at it!

Larry

Thank you Feck, that was very informative.

Larry Waters wrote:
Walter Loewe has written some excellent books on the tobacco history of Sweden..and they are available in English.

Feck, you know I'm going to have to publish your "rant" as an article..... For someone who doesn't like to write, you are pretty damn good at it!

Larry

I'll have to check this Walter Lowe cat out. I've also got Snus Kungen: The Biography of JF Ljungolf, but for some reason I'm having way more trouble understanding that one than I am the Sundling book. I think it is all the archaic references in the Ettan book that I'm not understanding, and there's no translation for certain words. Oh well, andra tider, andra seder.

And thank you Larry for your kind words regarding my literary capabilities. It's not that I'm a good writer, it's just that I'm bored. That snus book is really fascinating to me, and I don't have any real life friends that would give two craps about it, so I love being able to share with you guys.

@Fury: you're very welcome.

I'm new to snus, but from cigarette smoking, I know I picked them back up, often out of habit. Right now I'm still reaching for a cigarette, just because that's what I've always done. So I've got my snus on top of my cigarettes, to make me think about what I'm doing, before I pick it up.

I might be shamed for saying this out loud, but what about the non-tobacco snus? If what your looking for is to satisfy the habit, or liking the snus in your mouth, maybe you wouldn't necessarily have to have the nicotine?

@ Feck; Nice writing!!

Larry Waters wrote:
Walter Loewe has written some excellent books on the tobacco history of Sweden..and they are available in English.

Feck, you know I'm going to have to publish your "rant" as an article..... For someone who doesn't like to write, you are pretty damn good at it!

Larry

I agree with you Larry! I truly enjoy reading what Feck writes.

Bacawind wrote:
I'm new to snus, but from cigarette smoking, I know I picked them back up, often out of habit. Right now I'm still reaching for a cigarette, just because that's what I've always done. So I've got my snus on top of my cigarettes, to make me think about what I'm doing, before I pick it up.
might be shamed for saying this out loud, but what about the non-tobacco snus? If what your looking for is to satisfy the habit, or liking the snus in your mouth, maybe you wouldn't necessarily have to have the nicotine?
@ Feck; Nice writing!!
The key statement you made was "I've got my snus on top of my cigarettes, to make me think about what I'm doing, before I pick it up." You need to finish the cigarettes you have and don't buy or bum any more. Use the snus and cigarettes until you're out of cigarettes. Then just use the snus. If you have to "think about it", then it's like conventional cold-turkey quitting. Switching to Swedish Snus is so easy because you're not constantly thinking about it. In a few weeks you'll even forget you're not smoking! That's the beauty of Swedish snus and the curse of nicotine addiction.

Smokers are generally orally fixated so snus will play into making the habit change pretty easy....as long as you don't have to look at a snus can and a pack of cigarettes and "make a choice".

Snus and cigarettes do deliver nicotine differently so by continuing to smoke, you might be keeping yourself from adjusting. You need to stop cigarettes completely to give snus and your body a fair chance.

That's what I did and my unbreakable 35 year 2 pack a day cigarette habit just ceased effortlessly thanks to Swedish Snus. Don't over-think it: you don't have to with snus. Just move on to a healthier, happier, completely discreet way to satisfy your oral fixation, get the tobacco taste you love, and the nicotine you need.

Then if you like, try stopping snus and switch to altoids or mints. If that doesn't work, then you know you are hooked on nicotine and go back to snus.

If it does work and you still want the experience, then give the Tobak/Nic free snuses a shot.

I've been trying Gotlandssnus's new Tobak/Nic free snus. The taste isn't at all bad so far but it does not taste like tobacco. I'm using the Original recipe which won all the awards and it is peppery making it reminiscent of General snus. There is no tobacco taste at all though...more of a carrot/vegetable/earthy flavor.

You may want to stick with Altoids though. I don't know about Swedish Match's Onico Tobak/Nic free line, but Gotlandssnus only gives you 20 portions per can.

Keep us updated on how you're doing and good luck! We're all here for you!!!!

Larry

I don't know how much you smoke a day and what strength snus you use. If you use mini-portions and start getting a nicotine craving, pop in another one or switch to an 8mg/g snus.

You may want to keep some strong or extra strong snus around too. It's great with that first cup of coffee in the morning to get your metabolism going.

The key statement you made was "I've got my snus on top of my cigarettes, to make me think about what I'm doing, before I pick it up." You need to finish the cigarettes you have and don't buy or bum any more. Use the snus and cigarettes until you're out of cigarettes. Then just use the snus. If you have to "think about it", then it's like conventional cold-turkey quitting. Switching to Swedish Snus is so easy because you're not constantly thinking about it. In a few weeks you'll even forget you're not smoking! That's the beauty of Swedish snus and the curse of nicotine addiction.
8 months ago, when I started using snus, I had 2 packs of Camels. I didn't finish the first pack for two and a half weeks. The second pack is still unopened, sitting on my desk, right in front of me.